Mar 012009
NY Bill koch Team at NE Bill Koch Festival
Margaret Maher, NY District Chair Leads 20 NY youth skiers at the New England Bill Koch Festival this past weekend. Over 360 youth skiers attend the festival.
Results from Saturday’s relays link
Results fron Sunday relays link
Photos from saturday link
Photos from sunday link
[suffusion-the-author]
[suffusion-the-author display='description']16 Responses to “20 NY Bill kocher’s attend NE Bill Koch Festival at Notchview”
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.
Coach Margaret and the NYSEF skiers that participated in the NENSA BK Festival should be congratulated on some great performances…that certainly should take any stigma away from any notion that skiers from New York can’t compete in New England.
However, there are two points that need to be made regarding this posting…
First, by singling out the “Top 10” performances only, it goes against the intent of the Bill Koch Youth Ski League Pledge (page 36 of the NYSSRA Comp Manual):
“The toughest competition is always against ourselves. We compete to be our best, not to be better than the rest. Above all, we ski to have fun.”
It is quite possible that some of the other kids had personal breakthrough performances…and could be discouraged if they (or their parents) see that they didn’t make the blog.
Secondly, I was amazed to find out that New York is a district of New England! I don’t think all areas of NYS would see this as a positive development, especially since the western half of the state is more geographically and socially aligned with the Midwest.
Seriously, neither the NYSSRA Manual nor the BKYSL section of the NYSSRA website indicate that we are a NENSA District, nor that we have a District Chair, or that there was a NYSSRA-endorsed trip planned to the NENSA Festival open to all NYS BK skiers with registration information. Furthermore, there was no other communication (email, phone, BK Cmte Mtg Minutes, etc.) that I am aware of inviting any of the Central and Western NY teams to participate with the group.
As a member of NYSSRA since 1982, and the program leader of one of if not the largest BK program in NYS (with an annual average of over 50 kids in our year-round program), I cannot understand how NYSSRA can do business in this manner. This NENSA Festival issue is just an extension of the recent poor decision to have the state BK Festival in late March, after the snow has been long gone from the lowland population centers, and many kids have moved on to spring activities. Where is the customer focus? Where is the shared decision-making and overt/comprehensive communication?
I propose that we use the upcoming BK Festival in Lake Placid as an opportunity to start to change the way WE the stakeholders approach youth skiing in NYS and the Mid Atlantic Region. All BK parents and coaches need to meet, greet and start a common dialogue to be continued at the NYSSRA Spring Meeting. At that meeting, we need to seat a fixed BK Committee led by parent representatives (the biggest stakeholders) from the active BK clubs in NY, with a distributed leadership group representing all areas of New York. We need to set a strategic plan for youth skiing development FOR OUR STATE and start to immediately standardize and improve our programs and events, assuring that issues such as the existence of a J6 Class, chronic “skiing up” and event schedule/content optimization are resolved in a concurrent manner.
I hope that all readers of this post take my comments in the constructive light that they are intended.
Sincerely,
Bob Witkowski
RXCSF/GVBKYS Program Leader & NYS BK Parent
Bobski50k@aol.com
585-770-3974 (m)
585-924-9645 (h)
CC: Jim Kobak, Eric Hamilton, Margaret Maher
Reply to Bob Witkowski’s comment
Wow! I didn’t realize that by posting results from the NE bill Koch festival that I was in violation of any NYSSRA codes/rules/policies. Nor that I would be potentially offending anyone. I thought it may be of interest to our membership to announce results from events that NYers are attending. I would not normally post individual skiers results for a NY competition but since these kids were competing in a neighboring festival I thought it would be nice to announce those that received medals and ribbons – which were only the top ten.
A simple email to let me know of my error in judgment would have sufficed. Being publically ridiculed is not really appealing. I have removed all the names of NY skiers from the Blog posting – hopefully no one else was as offended as you were. Which is surprising seeing that you did not attend.
In response to your other comments, this was not and I am not aware of it ever being a NYSSRA endorsed trip as you referred to it. All families that attended did so on their own. Making their own arrangements just as they do for the NY festival. Once we are at the festival we fall under the NY district – a term designated by NENSA. Margaret is currently recognized as the NY district chair. NYers have been attending this festival since it’s inception. NYSSRA promotes it’s own Mid-A BK Fest and has not outwardly promoted the NE BK Fest although many Nyers usually attend. It is not NYSSRA’s position to tell it’s members what events they can a cannot compete in. They are free to compete any where they choose and we are happy to recognize their achievements. NYSSRA members are also NENSA Members which technically includes us as part of there festival.
Oh, I noticed that you congratulated Margaret and the NYSEF kids on their achievements, what about the rest of us. Should I be offended?
Oh give me a break!!!! This was a fun ski event to attend with our kids and team. Have you ever thought about attending any NEBK ski races? You don’t need an invitation to go.
I was going to post a comment last night about how great it was to see so many NY skiiers at the New England Bill Koch Festival, but I was really tired after a great winter of skiing, not only in New York and New England. My boys have skiied in several states this winter. You see, I am a veteran skiier of over 40 years. When I was a kid, to go the the Bill Koch Festival in Vt., Maine, Or NH was a huge deal. It was the trip of the year for us!!!! When my own boys were skiing for Bill KOch, we made a point to attend a New England Festival as often as our schedules would permit. What an opportunity!!! In 2003, we made our first visit to Putney, Vermont on the 25th anniversary of the Bill KOch League. My kids were given the opportunity to ski with former olympians, meet all kinds of new friends, and have a weekend they would never forget. We travelled on our own, stayed with friends, and met up with a number of New York skiiers. It was so awesome that our kids could go to more than one festival a year.
When I was younger, I fondly remember my father being designated as the district chair for this festival and all of the responsiblities that came with it. The year we went to Putney, there was no official district chair. Our kids had a great time. I do remember some gentlemen who was furious that a kid from NY won a medal (He is still mad to this day) It is a big deal for NY skiiers to place in the top ten. The next time we went, Rick Costanza was the district chair. I was thrilled he had picked up our bibs, helped us wax, and my boys were proud to be part of the New York Team. I clearly remember no distinction being made between being NYSEf and non NYSEF, it was a NY team. In the spirit of not bragging, I am proud to say my boys have done very well in cross country skiing. Charlie was on the podium at the USSA Super Tour in Stowe, Vermont. I believe a huge part of it has been the different people they have skiied against, the wonderful friends they have met, and in general the nordic ski community at large. Being a part of a wonderful organization such as NYSSRA and seeing the unbelievable amount of volunteer work that is done by these wonderful people is a part of their success. My boys have skiied with NYSEF for the last several years. Margaret Maher and the people she works with are a gift to our organization. She puts in an unbelievable amount of time and effort to make skiing in New york both fun and competitive for those that want it. If a sport is not fun, who is going to want to spend hours training in the cold, slogging in slushy now, driving for hours, grooming your own trails before skiing, etc…
I would be willing to bet that the majority of the skiiers heading off to the Junior Nationals tomorrow, grew up skiing in a fun filled atmosphere of Bill Koch. I don’t ever remember coaches or parents arguing or getting mad at who went to what events. That is the beauty of this sport, there is a variety of events to choose from. Some kids choose festivals, some choose ESG’s, some choose to ski once a week, some choose to focus on an Olympic dream, but they are all choosing and that is what is important. I choose to volunteer every year because I love this sport. I love to see kids out having fun and laughing and enjoying life.
I fully support Larry Wilkinson in posting his blog. I seriously wanted to comment on how great it was to see so many kids out skiing. It was a wonderful (even though cold)
ski season, and we all need to keep in perspective what it is all about. I see how quickly the results are posted on the website each weekend (it is not done magically), race updates, etc. I also remember seeing Larry volunteer his time at a coaching clinic in December.
Hosting a festival is a huge amount of work, the more people that attend, the better the competition and the more fun is had. Please remember that these are children we are talking about Bob. They are young and innocent, and we are all here to provide them with a healthy lifestyle choice. If they want to be winners, they will be because they want to be. I’d like to think that we are giving them the opportunity to have a wonderful childhood experience that they will in turn pass on to their own children, as I have.
P.S. WE should be really proud of all of the skiiers, but I believe Everett Sapp is the first New yorker to ever win a New England Bill KOch Festival. (Correct me if I am wrong) but WAY TO GO EVERETT!! He has worked really hard for this honor.
I truly believe that we need to improve the communication amongst all of the ski groups. Email has its limits. I have learned first hand that the email medium can inflame a situation rather than lead to an understanding. Its obvious to me we all have the same goal: to provide a fun winter activity for our kids.
We, personally, are learning that we need to check a number of websites before we head off to a race. For example – we went to a race in Lake Placid two weeks ago, with our J6, J4, and J3 skiers, and there was no J6 category, and there were no J3 racers there. Apparently the LP area J3 were in Old Forge instead of their own race. If we had checked the races around the state, and the registrations, or were on one of the teams that was in the know about this, we would have known. In fact, we are learning that there is a history to NY skiing that is unwritten, as is shown here by Sarah – that there is a tradition of going to the New England BK festival. So much so that our own NY festival was moved to the end of March this year? Maybe there is another reason, but I don’t know what it is…maybe we need to make our Spring meeting longer, so that we can communicate more. I think we would be a stronger organization if we made sure we communicated about the races. Even our own Higley Hustle race was very poorly attended, because we had it the same date as a race in LP..we had suggested the year before that our organizers move it to Sunday so that it wouldn’t conflict with other races, and it did anyway…here again is an opportunity for all of us to improve our communication. Let’s stop taking offense to these emails, and instead read what people are saying in order to improve NYSSRA.
I am a transplanted New Yorker and a product of the NENSA Bill Koch program. Nordic skiing in New England is a more popular sport and there is more participation, competition, and race organization generally in New England. I do believe that going to the NENSA Bill Koch Festival would be a great experience for New York skiers. The GVBKYSL could not attend as we were hosting a Festival of our own, and as a previous poster stated “hosting a festival is a huge amount of work”. I also believe that to make our competitive skiers on par with New England skiers we need to change how the New York system operates and not have a select few join in with NENSA. As NYSSRA members we need to join together and build a development pipeline system for our competitive skiers through Bill Koch, high school, and JO racing. As one of the people who worked so hard to produce the NY Bill Koch Festival last year to only have 0 NYSEF skiers attend it was a real slap in the face. Some may say it is a long distance to drive for a competition, but it is no farther than a Maine skier drove last weekend to attend the NENSA festival.
I think the main message behind Bob’s original post has been lost in personal translation of written word; that can often happen when sending email or writing posts when we insert our own personal bias or defense into the reading.
I think two main points for reflection are:
First, the NYSSRA manual does not indicate that NY is a NENSA district. What does that mean to the masses? To my knowledge, it is only this year that NYSSRA and NENSA agreed to share membership. Going forward the benefits of this relationship needs to be clearly defined in the manual and the “chair” noted for contact when questions or concerns arise.
The example of the NENSA festival is just that, an example. As a racing family and supporter of youth racing, it is agreed that any skier, youth and adult, can particpate in any event s/he chooses. A concern arises when reading the article that NY sent a team. In any sports “team” our children partipate, there exists specfic guidelines and a stucture for membership; once selected they play a role in that team and commit to certain obligations and contests. Implied in the posting was that a “team” was sent, not that all those from NY who showed to the event constituted the team. After reading the post, the question became, where was the communication as to how to become a member?
Second, moving forward is the intent of the post. How do we work as BK volunteer coaches, parents and NYSSRA leaders to provide and maximize oppotunity for our youth skiers? Bob is prompting us all to step back to take a look at the direction of youth skiing in NYS and then step up to be role models and leaders of a quality, comprehensive program. We, and I believe the other BK leaders, give our time and energy several times a week, several months a year to provide quality programs that teach ski specific skills, life long sport enjoyment, access to long term friendship and fun for all. We, and the other BK leaders I am sure, celebrate all skier successes and encourage those. I would be happy to personally share the good feelings our youth skiers leave me with after every practice and contest.
Overall the current system plods along, but it is defineately fractured. Bob has proposed a system, other suggestions are welcome, to be submitted and discussed at the spring NYSSRA meeting-BK committee. I think we all need to set higher standards for our performance as leaders and strive to create a better system for our youth skiers.
The intial post was not a personal attack on anyone but rather a call for clearer communication by and between NYSSRA leadership and its volunteers for the betterment of NYS skiing and most importantly for our children. I hope we can move forward with this objective.
Dianne Witkowski
This is a discussion that has been necessary for a long time. Let’s try to keep it civil for the benefit if all.
I would like to make one bit of information clear for all. There are actually 2 ski organizations in New York that govern skiing and they often get confused. NYSSRA is a group that supports and governs skiing in New York State and is not directly affiliated with USSA. The Mid-Atlantic Ski Team is a division of USSA and also represents other states- although no other states seem to participate. The Mid-Atlantic Team takes the junior skiers in our state to the USSA Junior Olympics each year.
Back to your discussion. I think you all agree, now you all need to work together. After participating and observing youth Nordic skiing in this State for many years I have seen much disagreement and division among the adults. I have seen a much different atmosphere among our youth skiers. Let’s be more like the kids- enjoy the races and work together to become better.
Joe
It has been very interesting reading the posts in response to my original critique and challenge to all our leaders regarding Youth Skiing in NYS.
Some of the commenters understand the issues…a lack of a 100% commitment of NYSSRA leadership and member clubs to have a common development strategy, action plan and quality assurance standards to make the foundation of all XC Skiing, YOUTH SKIING, the best it can be for our children in our State of New York and the Mid Atlantic Region.
Some others expressed lots of passion (GOOD!) in their replies but missed my point. Perhaps I should have been clearer…including again my congratulations to all the skiers and coaches that have recently put in some superb performances…that is not the issue. Let me make another attempt to express my personal concerns and include some background information from events over the last 2 years that have raised my frustration level with NYS XC ski sport to the breaking point. Please read to the bottom where I will be asking all of you to help my wife Dianne and I make an important decision regarding our future involvement in NYS skiing.
FIRST, anyone involved with youth sports should understand the tremendous amount of high-quality participation options now available in most communities for families and children. Soccer, hockey, baseball, you name it…are all hyper-organized, year-round activities that recruit children at increasingly-young ages and provide wonderful programs for skill development. In Greater Rochester, there are also running, cycling, kayaking and other “silent sport” programs to choose from. The mainstream programs provide for skill development and competition at “house”, “travel” and “premier” levels with tournaments leading in logical order to regional, super-regional and at older age groups national championships. Coaches and program leaders collaborate on camps, “friendly” tournaments, and even programs. The overall emphasis of all these sports is YOUTH participation and development, but the later opportunities for college scholarship and adult participation are numerous.
Our children both play premier-level soccer year-round for Empire United Soccer Academy, generally-recognized as the top program in Upstate NY, so we see what the possibilities are! Of particular note is the fact that the head coach of our daughter’s U11 program is also the head coach of the Fairport HS Girls Varsity team that just won the NYS Large School Championship. In his EUSA role, he is graciously coaching and developing young girls that will eventually compete against his own HS team! The commitment to the sport and developing players is paramount, with team and regional rivalries of secondary importance.
Now contrast this with XC Skiing. US Skiing has no such structure for J3 and below. NYSSRA BK has been limping along without focus as a secondary or tertiary priority of NYSSRA leadership. Overall long-term program development is sacrificed for short-term development of individuals. With limited exceptions, NYS Adult and Junior/HS programs are not associated with Youth programs. NYS XC ski areas and events are in serious jeopardy, especially with current economic factors adding to the stress. We received skier parent feedback this year expressing dissatisfaction with some NYSSRA-sanctioned BK events. This unsolicited feedback was related to basics like un-marked courses with kids getting lost, showing up/registering only to find out that all the J3 skiers they traveled to compete against were “skiing up” to J2, and in one case at another event entirely, making the parent’s travels a waste of time. While other participation in sports are growing, XC skiing in NYS is not. There are extremely limited college scholarship opportunities with so few universities having skiing programs. We all hear about the challenges facing post-collegiate racers. Etc.
That is the overall background that would leave any parent with questions about encouraging their children to pursue XC skiing as a sport to open doors for the future.
SECOND, specific events related to BK skiing in NYS over the last two years have served to break the spirit of at least some of the BK Program Leaders & parents, in particular my wife and I…
Two years ago during the 2007 NYSSRA BK Festival, we were asked to host the 2008 Festival. We were told that it was “Rochester’s turn” and the right thing to do after the last two Festivals were held in the Adirondack region. Our initial response was to decline, instead asking to host the 2009 Festival after getting our local program re-established for one more year. After being asked several more times in 2007, we finally relented (against our best instincts) and accepted NYSSRA’s plea, committing to NYSSRA leadership to put on a great event for BK skiers from around the state.
Over the next months, we worked out an ambitious plan and reached agreements with NYSSRA Leadership regarding the event date and content, building on previous best-practices while adding new and exciting activities. The first-weekend-in-March date was chosen to be optimal for snow conditions and skier availability, a choice we later found that we were not along in making. We also made a commitment to make the event affordable, taking a challenge regarding entry fees and arranging for very affordable accommodations. Throughout the process, it seemed odd that NYSSRA was so un-involved with the planning and event execution process, however, we continued to request and obtain NYSSRA concurrence for all decisions.
Our plan made assumptions regarding numbers of participants. We benchmarked previous festivals to identify participation levels and trends…and scaled our event accordingly. With help from Eric Hamilton, we sent personal email invitations to each NYSSRA club/coach and registered BK family. We marketed the event to all as a meeting of the best from NYS. When initial registrations lagged, we re-invited all the program leaders, with a curious lack of response. I urged NYSSRA leadership to intervene and encourage registration and participation. Finally, approximately one week before festival time and with registrations running at about ½ the expected rate, I received an email from Sean at the Saratoga Club. He apologized and said that his club would not be participating in the NYSSRA Festival, instead choosing to go to the NENSA Festival on the same date. Thanks to Sean for at least having the courtesy to let me know!
This was the first that I was even aware that the NENSA Festival was the same weekend as the NYSSRA one…why would I even care, since their festival is for them and OUR festival is for US? From my desk in Rochester, I am closer geographically with Toronto, Erie or Cleveland than I am with Burlington, Rutland or Jackson and was only focused on OUR festival.
In the end, we had a great festival with exactly ZERO skiers participating from the NYSSRA BK Clubs inside the Adirondack Blue Line, as those clubs chose the NENSA Festival over the NYSSRA Festival. This “cost” the skiers at OUR NYS festival the chance to compete against all of NYS’s best, and cost our host club financially too, as the fixed costs to host the Festival assumed 30-40 kids from those clubs would be participating! Since NYSSRA (or US Skiing Mid A) had no financial stake in the success or failure of the so-called NYSSRA/Mid A Festival, essentially GVBKYS skier parents had to make up the 4 figure difference. By now I am disgusted…but there is more!
At the NYSSRA Spring Meeting/BK Committee, it was proposed that the 2009 Festival would be hosted by NYSEF in Lake Placid on 21/22 March. As an attempt to reconcile the gaps caused by the 2008 Festival participation, all the participants (100%) agreed to support a Festival in LP, but with a date NO LATER THAN the first weekend in March. However, after the meeting concluded a unilateral decision was made by NYSSRA to award the Festival to NYSEF on the late March dates. Evidently, consensus decisions made by the BK Committee are meaningless. Now I am really disgusted!
As a result of the unilateral schedule decision, participation in the Fall Cmte meeting was poor; why bother to attend? Well, we all should have attended the Fall meeting, as apparently there were no standards established for the 2009 Festival. When the event schedule was finally published, the entire J6 Class was missing! There is no distance skate event, instead replacing it with a competitive ski jumping competition that would be a great demonstration event BUT is hardly a fair competition for skiers without exposure to jumping. To Matt Cook’s credit, per our request he has adjusted the schedule as practical to include J6 skiing events, also adding a Saturday Coaches Meeting for people traveling long distances. Thanks again Matt.
Now I find out by reading this blog that NY is a “District” of New England, that we have a District Chair (apparently both additional unilateral decisions) and from all appearances we sent a NYS Team to the NENSA Festival sanctioned by NYSSRA. Why would I think anything else when a member of NYSSRA leadership posts such an article on the NYSSRA website? To say that I was disappointed upon reading this is an understatement. I have not slept soundly in the week since! When will the surprises end?
So, where do we go from here? My original posting proposes a way forward, using the NYSSRA Spring Meeting to establish an empowered BK Committee with fixed members. They can then set a strategy, action plan and standards by which perhaps NYS youth skiing can grow from. The BK Committee will also need to convince the overall NYSSRA leadership that Youth Skiing should be the FIRST PRIORITY of the organization…more in line with the NENSA model and other sports we are competing with for our athletes! We don’t have to be NENSA, but we can for sure copy elements of what they do if WE think that is best for NYS.
Finally, Dianne and I have some tough decisions to make along with our children. Is it worth the hundreds of hours and approximately 40 weekends a year that we personally donate to youth skiing in NYS and our GVBKYS club? Should we encourage our children to focus competitive efforts on sports with more opportunities for excellence like soccer, running or cycling and keep skiing for recreation only? They will not be able to continue all these sports at the highest level and will need to decide at some point anyway. Right now we are leaning towards leaving the sport of organized skiing all together. It is just too frustrating to continue in the current structure, and we can’t in good conscious keep encouraging other parents to follow us in a dead-end sport, at least from the perspective of demanding customers from Western New York. If ANYONE has any compelling arguments to help us in this decision, please feel free to email us at Bobski50k@aol.com and anadamom@aol.com.
Thanks for your time and hope see many of you at the LP Festival; GVBKYS is bringing approximately 17 skiers, and despite having no natural snow to train on for 3 weeks now, we expect some top performances from them and are looking forward to the competition.
Sincerely,
Bob Witkowski
Thank you, Bob, for stating that so clearly…I certainly share in your frustration. NYSSRA is lucky to have you involved in NY skiing. You have done a tremendous job in Rochester, and your festivals were top notch.
hi to all from the junior olympics! the premier junior cross country ski event in the country. 6 coaches from 5 different clubs in the state are working towards the common goal of giving our juniors the best shot at performing well at the event. yesterday we qualified 6 skiers (at altitude) for the heats in the afternoon! these skiers were from three strong ski programs in three different areas of the state. all have skied in the new york bksl festival and the new england bksl festival. who’s kids are we trying to develop? all the kids in our division. dead end sport? ” maybe you can’t handle the rodeo burger!!” get out of your bubble and see what the rest of the ski world is doing. no two skiers are the same and their paths to development are not the same. when you have taken a kindergardner and taught them to ski and then coach them to a national championship, you will then know the steps it takes to get there!
My thoughts on the above are located at http://nyssrapoints.wordpress.com
Having grown up in the Rochester area, done my college racing in NH, and now my old guy racing in the middle of the state, I can understand all geographical viewpoints.
I also have 3 kids who don’t like long car rides, 2 of whom love to ski. The best way to keep them involved in any sport is to take advantage of local opportunities, for my kids this means alpine skiing at Greek peak ten miles away.And while i grew up in Penfield if i lived near the VT border I and my kids would naturally want to ski VT, because the trails are fun and it’s a beautiful place to ski. Sometimes we get so concerned about the calibre of the comp that we forget for 99 percent of us it’s about fun.
As for events in the rochester area, the weather back home is frustrating for skiers, and I am sure part of anyone’s decision to travel!
However, I as a preacher know how frustrating it can be to pour your heart into preparations for an event and then have only a few support it. On behalf of the kids, Thanks for all your hard work Bob, you sound busier than most of us, I for one was thankful for the comp. we had in Roch. due to the hard work of people like you and ruth hayes, wish that i had the opp. to know you when I lived out there, oh btw, i guess the tht(now the wft) is still on for this weekend, skied there last week before the rain and warm,there was a good base, which with some shovelling on the downhills should hold up, if we get it in it should be super fast, you flatlanders better bring your metal edge skis, should be some world record classic times!
Thanks to all the volunteers who got the the winona forest tourathon back on track today, eveything was perfect. Special thanks to Russ and Allen for helping get the course ready and making sure it was spot on!
Congrats to Eric Seyse and Kathy Schwenk, long race winners, great job!
Now that we all know they can do it, and while we got a good crowd, hopefully we will get twice as many next year.
Again thanks to all the volunteers and racers, you helped make it a perfect day!
Here is a flash. If a parent is truly interested in getting a scholarship to some university for their child, Spend more time in the Library. The scholarships given out to skiing and well as soccer are far an few between. The money is not there. Academics open more doors and give more opportunies. The majority of sports we particpate in are because we enjoy them. They are fun. We love them.
The fun element has to be put back into all sports. Read the article by Kikkan Randall’s H.S. Coach on fasterskier. He hits the nail on the head. Fun=Love of a sport. It is a simple concept that has been taken out of many of the sports mentioned above.
Call it the Tiger Woods phenominum. Time to get back to long term developement with the emphasis on fun!